What If Sitting at Jesus’ Feet Means Letting Your Family Fall Apart? (Mary & Martha)

A quiet living room in Bethany, a sealed tomb, and a Savior who stops to weep before he calls a name—this is where faith and mental wellbeing meet. We invited listeners into the home of Mary, Martha, and Lazarus to explore how Jesus honors different personalities, different griefs, and the same deep hope. One sister serves, one sits, and both reveal something vital about how love moves and how souls rest.

We start with the tension that many of us feel: is spiritual health found in doing or being? Martha’s hospitality and Mary’s stillness become more than a rivalry; they’re a map for ordering the inner life. We talk about what happens when service runs ahead of presence, why rest often triggers guilt for doers, and how Jesus re-centers us by inviting relationship first and action from overflow. Then we step into John 11, where Lazarus’ death exposes our hardest questions—Why didn’t God? Where was he when it broke?—and watch as Jesus meets each heart differently.

Martha brings bold theology and aching honesty, and Jesus answers with living truth: “I am the resurrection and the life.” Mary brings tears, and Jesus answers with his own. We sit with the shock of “Jesus wept,” a line that dismantles the myth of a distant God. From there, we trace the miracle that follows, the grave clothes unwrapped by a community, and the messy aftermath—belief rising, opposition hardening, and Lazarus facing fresh danger. Hope breaks in, but the world stays cracked, which is why we explore the “now and not yet” as a framework for resilient mental health: pray boldly, grieve honestly, and keep walking.

If you’ve carried unanswered prayers, chronic struggle, or a heart tired of the pendulum between doing and being, this conversation offers grounded comfort and practical steps. We share takeaways on practicing lament, choosing presence without shame, serving without burnout, and letting trusted people help you loosen what still binds. Subscribe, share this with someone who needs hope today, and leave a review to tell us: where have you heard Jesus call you out of the dark?

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Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Series And Focus
• 0:35 Introducing Mary, Martha, And Lazarus
• 2:05 Bethany Context And Gospel Sources
• 3:50 Mary And Martha’s Home Dynamics
• 7:20 Being With Jesus Versus Doing For Jesus
• 10:25 Finding Balance In Service And Rest
• 14:20 Guilt, Rest, And Receiving Love
• 17:15 Lazarus Falls Ill: The Setup In John 11
• 20:30 Disciples’ Confusion And Thomas’ Resolve
• 23:10 Martha’s Bold Faith And Theology
• 26:00 Mary’s Grief And Jesus’ Tears
• 29:10 The Now And Not Yet Of Suffering

Transcript

Dave Quak: 0:00

Well, Jessica Quack, thank you for coming on Sunburn's Souls. On this show, we speak about life and faith in our mental well-being, and we are in the middle of a series called Bible Heroes and Their Mental Wellbeing. How do you think it's going? Like, do you reckon we're going alright with maybe four episodes in?

Jess Quak: 0:14

Yeah. I think it's interesting the different things you can pull out that scripture actually makes available to you. Yes. Yeah.

Dave Quak: 0:21

Yeah, it's good. So we've looked at King David. We've looked at who else? Uh Hannah. Yeah. We looked at Hannah, we also. Who did we do first?

Jess Quak: 0:29

I think those are the ones we've done, isn't it?

Dave Quak: 0:31

Yeah, there was one more. But today we're going to be looking at a little family. We're going to be looking at Lazarus and Mary and Martha. And if you don't know, they were a family. They were brother and sister. And friends of Jesus. And you pick up a lot of what happened in their life from the book of John. But you might already be thinking, oh, I know about Mary and Martha and Lazarus, because they are quite famous in the Bible. And I don't know, just as we look at this today, we're going to look at grief, we're going to look at loss, family dynamics, relationship with Jesus. It's a pretty rad kind of topic to look at, in my opinion.

Jess Quak: 1:05

Yeah, it is amazing that how within the Gospels, the different Gospel authors sort of bring out different aspects that pull together the message that they're trying to come, like bring across to the audience that they're writing it to. And so some people who are really significant in the life of Jesus or the disciples may get one mention or a few, um, and someone else will pull apart and give them a bit more time. So with Mary and Martha in particular, you don't see too much of them in across all of the Gospels, but particularly in John, there's a there's a whole lot that they actually play a really significant part, especially in the lead up to Jesus' crucifixion and his persecution and everything that happens with that.

Dave Quak: 1:53

So it's crazy because even so Jess and I had the privilege of heading over to Israel just before COVID hit. So we're in the plane on the way back, and they were saying, Hey, there's this random virus that's just started, and it may affect you and your family. It may affect you and your family. Anyway, so we got in just before COVID, whenever that was. But even though we'd been to Israel and over to Jordan as well, it's still kind of confusing piecing it all together. Because as we're leading into this episode, I was like, Yeah, they're from Capernaum, near the near the water. And Jeff was like, No, I don't think they are. And so we looked at Scripture again, and they're not. Bethany, yeah. Bethany, not Bethany Hamilton, Bethany the City. Right? And so they're from Bethany, and and that's not near the ocean, and so you've got to kind of like recalibrate your ideas of where everyone was and everything based on what scripture says, and it is a lot in John um 11, and and and I think maybe we should start with the most famous story, do you think, Jess?

Jess Quak: 2:53

Yeah, we can do that.

Dave Quak: 2:54

So, so you've got your Bible open. Why don't you just read us a couple of verses, kind of like painting the picture of what their family dynamic was like and what their relationship with Jesus was like? Because that's huge. I mean, ultimately, some men's souls exist to teach people how to connect with Jesus in their faith and in their mental well-being, and how that works. And we learn a lot from Mary and Martha and Lazarus today.

Jess Quak: 3:17

Yeah, absolutely. And you see the different players going on here and the different way, the their personalities that are different, the way that they respond to different things, and how for each of us we are going to have maybe even the same circumstance. Like you and I can come and something might happen, and you're gonna respond to it in one way and see it through one lens, and I'm gonna see it through another lens. But Jesus meets each of us in that space as well, and we really see that with Martha and with Mary. Yeah. So in Luke 11, or just before Luke 11, sorry, uh, we see the famous passage of Mary and Martha. Jesus, it says only here a certain town, um, but in John it does say they're from Bethany, which is quite significant geographically, um, because of what was going on. But here, um, Martha's actually the one who's welcoming Jesus into their home, and she's just getting it all done. She is playing hostess, she's making it happen that he the hospitality is just on point, and Mary, who is her sister, is just sitting there just lapping it up, just being in Jesus' presence, and and Martha kind of calls out her sister, like, Jesus, make her help me. Like, what's the deal? Yeah, um, and Jesus, you know, says famous passage, she's chosen the better thing for now.

Dave Quak: 4:52

And um and that dynamic didn't just start with Jesus. I mean, my assumption is when their neighbour Harry came over, it was the same, and then you know what I mean. Like, yeah, and you might even think, well, the dynamic in your family might be the same. There's the one who's the dutiful one, maybe the older brother or sister who gets around helping and gets things done, and then there's the other ones that are just all about relationship, and they're not doing it to be intrinsically lazy or annoying, they just prefer relationship over performance, and there's just so many dynamics at play.

Jess Quak: 5:22

Yeah, it's even just the different ways that different people will connect. Yeah, and um, for one person, their way of showing love is to make the person feel so welcome and do all the things for them, whereas for the other person to help them feel love is to sit and just be with them. And uh for Jesus is like, hey, just slow your roll. She's not doing the wrong thing here, she's actually doing something very worthwhile. And within family dynamics, this is interesting as well. Um, particularly, I know a lot of mums struggle with I'm doing all this stuff, and you guys are just sitting there, yeah, enjoying it all, and being with one another, and I'm the one doing all the stuff and taking the photos, but I'm not in the photos, and I'm making the dinner, but I'm also the one um going, hey, Jesus, let's make this happen. Or can you sort this out? And Jesus is like, actually, this is a really good thing, this sitting here, but the awareness that other people might be pulling more weight in certain ways is probably quite interesting to bring to the table and go, okay, everyone, if we all help out a little bit, then we can all sit down a little bit.

Dave Quak: 6:42

What's the line though? Because I still remember going to a conference once and it was almost like a call to commitment because you know, a lot of people had been soaking in the presence of God and whatever else, and then the pastor got up and said about this story, you know, Mary did the better thing, but Martha's thing was still good, and then went on for ages about there are some Marthas in this room who are still, you know, who are built to serve. And and it kind of like flipped it, I think, what Jesus was trying to say here. Now, I'm not neglecting the fact that both of these women were doing something that Jesus valued.

SPEAKER_03: 7:16

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 7:16

But it's not like it's not a competition in the sense of you're trying to recruit people to each team, it's about seeing Jesus through each one of your representations of um how you want to connect with God, right?

Jess Quak: 7:30

Yeah, I think to a degree, yeah. But I reckon that he's also calling the Marthas to have those merry moments. Like if you're gonna be someone who's gonna be serving, you also need to make sure you're having times of stopping and just being in the presence of God, because you can do all sorts of things for God without actually connecting with God, and it just will lead you down a path of bitterness and resentment. It's not gonna be any good. But at the same time, Jesus says, you know, if you love me, you will obey my commands. It's not just a matter of sitting there and just being only doing nothing, it's it's moving forward, but it the the foundation that Jesus is offering is okay, be with me first. That is priority, and from out of that, the overflow will be that you then serve.

Dave Quak: 8:23

Do you reckon there's ever going to be the right balance? Because if you look through church history, and I'll only go the last 50 years, like you know, 50 years ago it was seen as a badge of honour if you left your family at the altar to serve the Lord and all of that, you know, and then there's like the man of God syndrome, like the guy who's the most haggard and worn out is the one who's the most spiritual and all of that, and then it swings. And at the moment, which I'm thankful for, there's a lot around spiritual disciplines and retreat and the inner life.

unknown: 8:51

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 8:51

Do you reckon you ever get it right? Or is this like always going to be the pendulum for the rest of the Christian world, or what?

Jess Quak: 8:59

Oh, look, we'll just have to wait and see, I suppose. But I think it's the so much of Christianity is the both end, isn't it? It's it's this and that, it's being and doing, but it's just putting the first things first, the foundation first, the doing comes because we are who we are. And um even within my own life, my own Christian walk, there are times when God has called me to sort of pull back a little bit, to just be a little bit more with Him, yeah, and to just stop almost running ahead because I've gotten in this pattern of do, do, do, do, do, do, and He's like, whoa, pull it back, just be with me a bit. And other times he's pushed me, okay, we've got this, go, go. Um, so it's relational, right? It's not just a matter of going, this is what it looks like, A, B, C, do this. It's an actual relationship with God.

Dave Quak: 10:00

I think you're right, it is relational. Because otherwise it works either way.

unknown: 10:03

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 10:04

You know, you could sit there begrudging that you're sitting there, we'd rather be in the kitchen as well. Yeah.

Jess Quak: 10:09

Where's Lazarus Drew in this one?

Dave Quak: 10:11

Does he appear in this one?

Jess Quak: 10:12

No, not there.

Dave Quak: 10:13

Yeah. So he's like, I don't know, one of the brothers, he might just be hanging with Jesus too, but only only Mary gets hammered for that.

Jess Quak: 10:21

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 10:22

You know, I do think there's something about um those of us that have a desire to work, that when we do have a chance to stop, there's that guilt or something that we need to be set free from. And I think we really shouldn't carry that guilt.

Jess Quak: 10:36

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 10:36

You know, because Jesus is ultimately, you know, he's the father, he's God the father in human form, wanting to connect with his children, wanting to sit with his sons and daughters. And I know for myself, if I had a time to sit with my son and daughter, and they were kind of like doing it out of obligation, or they'd rather do something else, or they felt like they needed to be paid to do it, or whatever, it'd break my heart. Yeah. And I think we've got to somehow just come back to God and go, oh no, like time in his presence is never a waste of time.

Jess Quak: 11:07

Yeah, never. And it's depending on how your particular brain will work as well as how you feel about rest. Um for some people, it's almost an idolatrous thing, like where it's to live a comfortable life where you're not doing anything, you're only thinking of yourself is something that is is wrong for you. For other people, they'll feel this false sense of guilt and shame and almost like they're being lazy to stop. And for those people, it's like, no, this is where you need to be reading passages like this and go, okay, you need to, this is the job. Yeah, this is the main thing you need to be focusing on is just being in the presence of God, yeah, just soaking him up and allowing him to bring you that that ultimate rest and that ultimate place, that abiding with him.

Dave Quak: 12:03

So true. So they, I mean, the only reason they were in this conflict or trying to figure it out is because they wanted to know Jesus.

SPEAKER_03: 12:09

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 12:09

You know, if they just didn't want to know him, then there'd be no problems. But they wanted to know him, they did know him, and so Mary, Martha, and Lazarus almost became a little family that Jesus could retreat to, yeah. You see, through the Gospels. And so they got close. And we don't know what happened in the conversations behind the closed doors. I mean, I wish I did, you know, but they were close, and then soon the other so what you mentioned was one of the main stories with uh Mary and Martha, but soon Lazarus gets sick.

Jess Quak: 12:38

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 12:39

Tell us about that.

Jess Quak: 12:40

So we read about this in the John account, and it's a really beautiful take, I think. It's it's an insight into the way that God perceives the way we live this life in a broken world, and how different people respond to the brokenness of this world, and how God responds to each person in that place. And um it's it's helpful for those who are struggling when you're reading this, but it's also helpful for those who are helping those who are struggling, yeah, because it kind of uh piles on it's it's so rich with the amount of stuff that's there. So um in John 11 and 12 is where we see Jesus is with his disciples, he is away, and there is this massive persecution that's really bubbling and boiling up, and then he gets the word that his friend Lazarus, and John actually spells out that Jesus loves these people, like they are actually close. This isn't just some guy that they're friends, and so Jesus hears this and he he says, you know, Lazarus is asleep. Um and that God's plan basically is that Lazarus is gonna die so that when he's he's raised again, that it's gonna be for the glory of God. And um it's a really funny interaction with him and the disciples.

Dave Quak: 14:18

They're such clowns, but yeah.

Jess Quak: 14:20

It's so good. The humanity of them, it's so good. If you're ever feeling like, man, I just feel like I'm not getting it as a disciple of Jesus. I feel like sometimes I'm messing it up or missing the point, or you actually just go back to the Bible and read the way the disciples who have Jesus with them, and they're just not getting it, and they're confused, and they're they're so very human, so much like us, and Jesus is okay with that. Um, and so they there's this really funny interaction, and Jesus, you know, says, our friend Lazarus has gone to sleep, and they're like, Oh, good on him, that's great, kind of thing. And he goes, Laris, Lazarus is dead.

Dave Quak: 15:02

Don't they say something like, Oh, good, if he sleeps, he'll recover.

Jess Quak: 15:06

He's like, Oh, he sleeps, that's right.

Dave Quak: 15:08

Lazarus is dead.

Jess Quak: 15:09

Lazarus is dead. Um, and they're like, Whoa! And he goes, We're going there to meet him. And Thomas is a crack up, he's he's acknowledging this massive persecution. People are out to kill Jesus, and Bethany is right near Jerusalem, which is the sort of epicenter of things, and going to you know, near Jerusalem at this time is really not advisable if you're like, no, this is not a safe place for you to be going right now. And so um, Thomas is hilarious. He goes, uh, let us also go that we may die with him.

SPEAKER_00: 15:49

Inspirational Thomas. Yeah, you preach that, Thomas. You preach that.

Jess Quak: 15:52

Yeah, he so even he has his own sort of personality quirks where he's just a little bit of a pessimist, you know, he's the one who's doubting as well. And um, you see him as a follower of Jesus, and it's quite relatable where he's just like, What are we doing? This is like if he's gonna die, what are we gonna do about that? Um so Jesus enters Bethany and Martha comes to meet him, and she's always the initiator. So you see in the Luke account, she's the one who invites Jesus to come and have this meal with them. Um, but then here in this time of grief, she goes out to meet Jesus, and it's really cool the way that she meets with him in this time of grief as well, and it's somewhat accusing, it's also a statement of absolute faith, um, and trying to figure it out. Like my brother has died. You could have saved him, yeah. You could have saved him, but you know what? You're here now. I know you've got power over any you could still save him. Yeah, that's huge, it's so massive. It's been four days since Lazarus died, four days, and that's that's a long time to have been processing this grief, but she's still deep in it and still willing to hold on to the fact that Jesus is so powerful, and she's like, You can do this still, and then Jesus has a back and forth with her. Um that's really quite enlightening, and it's it's a bit different from what we see with him with Mary in a little bit, and even him with the crowds, and so here we say Jesus is responding. Um, I am the resurrection and the life. Those who believe in me, even though they die, will live. And everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this? And she says, she's one of the first to say, Yes, Lord, I believe that you are the Messiah. You are the anointed one, you are the one to come and do this. The Son of God, the one coming into the world. This statement of I know who you are, I know what you can do. Um and I know that there's gonna be a time when this death and brokenness and all these things is gonna be sorted out in the final resurrection.

SPEAKER_03: 18:31

Yeah.

Jess Quak: 18:31

And he says, Yeah, but I can do something about this now, too. Um It's a really hard place to be in when we are not meant for death. We're not meant for sickness and brokenness. There's something within us that just Yeah, reels at it, hey.

Dave Quak: 18:53

Yeah, it is you're right. I don't love it when you go to a funeral and people say things like death is just the next part of life. No, man, we were designed to dwell with God for eternity, and death is part of the brokenness of life now. Yeah, it's not meant to be. No, so it did offend the real order, especially with Jesus there. Yeah, you know, he was there, yeah. So, like the if the God essence is hanging around and there's death, they seem incongruent.

Jess Quak: 19:19

Yes, it's just incompatible almost. Like, how is it that you can be here and you can do anything, and yet we're struggling with this brokenness, and it's so unnatural. Um what do we do? And he's like, Look, at the end of time, I'm gonna have this sorted, but while I'm here, I'm gonna do something too. So he meets Martha where she's at in one way, and then it's interesting because although Mary somewhat similarly then comes and meets him, he meets her in a different way, yeah, because she's a different personality and she's responding differently, and he meets with her where she's at. So Martha has this moment with Jesus. It's absolutely amazing. Like you could read the last passage about Martha, and if you are reading it wrongly, you could be like, Oh, she doesn't love Jesus as much as Mary does. Um, but when you just see what she said about Jesus, she knows who he is, she has a genuine faith. Mary, Martha goes to get Mary, Mary comes out, and she as well says, If you were here, Lazarus wouldn't have died. There's this real strong firm um acknowledgement of the power of God in Jesus that Jesus, you could have done something about this, and that's hard, that's a hard place to be in.

Dave Quak: 20:44

Yeah. I mean, I know I've been in places where I know Jesus could have done something and didn't.

Jess Quak: 20:49

If you wanted to, Jesus, you could heal this. If you wanted to, you could do this. I know you've got the power. That's a really difficult tension to live in. And what happens next is really beautiful because when we have prayers that are answered with not now or not yet, or maybe not in this lifetime, you'll see you know what I was pulling together in the end. Um, we can come up with this false assumption that God doesn't really care. We're just players on a chessboard that he's moving around, and he doesn't feel that much of a sense of empathy or really care. Um, but what happens next is Jesus doesn't have the back and forth with Mary quite so much. He sees her weeping, he sees her grief, and he himself feels deeply troubled and deeply grieved. Yeah, and there's different ways that different people have taken this where they've gone, um, wow, it's because of her lack of faith, or it's because of this, or because of that, but really it's the Bible is saying he's seeing her grief, he's seeing that she is in accordance with his heart that yeah, this is wrong. Like, people are not meant to have to deal with this kind of thing. I'd never designed for the human soul to have to go through this, and yet I'm feeling it with you, and he himself is in on it, and he's probably thinking as well, like this is such genuine pain and heartbreak. And I'm about to be crucified not long from now, and they're gonna go through this again, yeah, and ultimately it's going to be for the benefit of everyone, but it doesn't mean that there's not pain now, and he enters into that pain with them, even though he knows he's already said he's going to raise Lazarus up, he still shows the heartbeat of God as he comes and meets with them in that pain in the in the now and not yet moment.

Dave Quak: 23:01

And that's the hard thing with the now and not yet moment, is because sometimes when it's now, like you're like, wow, this is the best. Like, and you know, you wish that was the more likely scenario every time. Yeah, but then when it's not yet, it's like, man, this is hard. Like those questions, you could have done something, Jesus, and you didn't. Yeah, they're they're hard when someone loses a child, or you know, we saw, you know, over the last four days there's been all these shark attacks, which has been just so random. And a young fella got hit yesterday. It's like, well, you could do something. Like, yeah, it is a big question, it's a real question.

Jess Quak: 23:37

Yeah, yeah. And Jesus is there.

Dave Quak: 23:43

Well, I mean, what's his reaction?

Jess Quak: 23:45

Yeah, he joins in, he's he weeps, he's weeping, he's genuinely moved, he's genuinely he's not just putting on a show here where he's like, Oh dear dear, and he's not like giving Pat answers, he meets and goes, like, yes, this is also how God feels about this brokenness.

Dave Quak: 24:06

That's it. And when there is tragedy, you know, we can sometimes ask Jesus, where are you? Where were you? What's going on?

SPEAKER_03: 24:12

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 24:13

And often his answer is right there in amongst it, grieving too.

SPEAKER_03: 24:17

Yeah.

Dave Quak: 24:17

You know, like he doesn't like inflict things on us like this, you know. Like he didn't inflict this on Lazarus. It was part of the brokenness of you know, life this side of eternity, but he's there with some sort of solution. And does it always work out the way we want? No way, man. But I think the heart of God is what needs to be reflected that he is involved and invested, he's not just cold and off to the side.

Jess Quak: 24:40

Yeah. And that's and grief is one of those many multifaceted things too. Grief is something that happens when we lose someone, yes. But there's also the grief that comes, especially with mental health stuff, where you go, God, you could have taken this away. We've seen you take it away with other people. We've seen you come through and heal someone of depression, heal someone of bipolar, heal someone of whatever. You could do this at any moment. This particular element of grief and suffering could be solved.

SPEAKER_03: 25:16

Yeah.

Jess Quak: 25:17

It's not. But you're there griefing with us.

Dave Quak: 25:22

That's it. And I think too, once we start asking those why questions, right? Like, if you went through a tragedy and asked God, why did this happen? There's no answer he could give that would adequately satisfy your like uh, why did I lose my child? Well, X, Y, Z, no answer. No, no answer would do it. And so, as hard as it is, we've got to also move to a place where we go, we don't get it, God's still good, and I'm angry and I'm sad and this sucks. Yeah. Um, but I've got to somehow keep my faith and keep moving forward. And in those times, feel free to you know, write a psalm of lament. Feel free to cry out to Jesus, fall at his feet, say, Where were you? That's all okay. Yeah, but at the end of the day, remember he's there too. Like, he is there, Jess. He's so there. And I think you know, as we look at stories like this and accounts that they they shed light on Jesus, who is far better than we ever could have asked or imagined. Yeah, he is so good to us, yeah, you know, and he's so kind, and you know, he weeps, and then he goes to the front of the burial site, and what happens next?

Jess Quak: 26:35

Yeah, he um he calls Lazarus out. I have often spent many, many hours probably thinking and imagining how this all actually went down from Lazarus' perspective. Did it hurt? Was it okay? No, no, no, laughing, thinking just like, yeah, yeah.

Dave Quak: 26:58

Oh, there's some tears in your eyes. I thought you were crying. I'm like, that's that's a weird time to cry in the podcast.

Jess Quak: 27:02

No, you just um it yeah, to for him, what that would have been like being sick, and then he's cuffed, like he's he's buried, he's and he's coming out, and um, everyone's like shocked, and he it like they said, his body would have smelled, he would have started decaying. Did he also get healed from that as well? Like, how did that happen? Um, and this is like a not a resurrection like Jesus went through. He went through death and out the other side, whereas this is almost like uh a resuscitation where he was dead, he truly was dead, it had been a long time, um, but he then he came back to life, but he would then die again. And after this, um, some people come to believe in Jesus because of this miracle, some people then go extra hard after Jesus, which then leads to his crucifixion because of this miracle, but Lazarus also gets chased down to be murdered after this, and that's what I think it comes to that ultimate hope that we have in Jesus and the importance of it. Because while Jesus did do this miracle and stopped this grief momentarily of Lazarus dying, he still woke up to a world that still had brokenness in it, and there was still persecution, and his friend Jesus did get crucified so brutally. There was still pain and there was still suffering, and he would still go on to die himself. Eventually, Lazarus is not still alive today, but but there is that yes, Jesus is bringing the kingdom in these moments, and we see these incredible flashes of how God really intends for us to be and what the fullness of God looks like, but but then we're seeing the glimpses of when it all culminates in the full resurrection, when it's all made new, and we have our heavenly bodies, and we are not going to have to face death and brokenness again. And that's not some pie in the sky when you die, kind of whoo, that would be nice. It's a genuine um hope that took all the original disciples, you know, from the eleven through to those getting persecuted in Acts, this knowledge, this sensitive founding that no, there is more to life than this, and there is this hope that we'll um will make all things new and all things right, and the significance of that. And so when we see that in the context of this, it does come into play in a way where we we can ask these questions and we can sit with God through this, but then we have this ultimate underlying hope that we can then re-fix our gaze on as we go through whatever grief we might come across, no matter how we process grief, we can all come back to that same place.

Dave Quak: 30:09

That's awesome, that's awesome, Jessica Quack. It has been a delight pulling apart these passages and looking at some amazing characters. Best of all is Jesus, obviously, just seeing him at work and you know, just gives us faith and reinvigorates where we're at. And so as we wind down, my beautiful bride, could you pray for us? And we will continue next week with Jonah.

Jess Quak: 30:34

Yeah. Heavenly Father, I thank you that you meet with us where we're at. Our questions and our difficulties, and our brokenness is no surprise to you, and yet you come and you meet us there, and your heart beats for us, and you meet with us in this place. And for the people who are listening now, Lord God, I ask that you would make your presence known to them. That is the God of all comfort and the God of hope, that you would be meeting in a way that hearts truly are comforted and minds are turned to you. That you have got this, and that you are a good God who loves beyond any measure we could even imagine. In Jesus' name. Amen.

Dave Quak: 31:29

Amen.