The Truth About Challenging Behaviour in Kids

Your kid is melting down again, you’ve tried everything you can think of, and nothing works. Many of us know what that's like. 

We sit down with Wendy Paroz from Sprout Support Center to name what’s really happening under explosive behaviour and to offer a way forward that’s trauma informed, research based, and compassionate to parents who are running on empty.

Wendy shares how decades of education and ministry led her to a clear message: challenging behavior is often a sign of lagging skills, not laziness, not “bad character,” and not proof that you’ve failed. We talk through what neuroscience says about the brain’s need for safe relationships, why chronic stress and little t trauma can reshape a child’s nervous system, and how that plays out as big reactions at home, school, and church. 

The conversation also bridges beautifully with faith, focusing on connection first and growth that does not crush a person’s spirit.

Wendy explains how Sprout coaches parents inside the home and tracks progress with three simple markers: frequency, intensity, and recovery time. You’ll hear what de escalation can look like in real time, why kids can’t problem solve when the thinking brain is offline, and the three core skills that make the biggest difference over the long run: flexibility, frustration tolerance, and problem solving under pressure.

If you’re tired of advice that blames you or ignores neurodiversity, this will give you language, tools, and hope. Subscribe for more conversations on faith and mental well being, share this with a parent who needs a breath, and leave a review so more families can find support.

Some reliable and helpful names worth looking up on YouTube include:

• Dr. Bruce Perry (Neurosequential Network)
• Dr. Stuart Ablon (THINK:Kids) Think:Kids | Official home of Collaborative Problem Solving® (CPS)
• Dr. Karen Purvis — Karyn Purvis Institute of Child Development and TBRI Program

Karyn Purvis Institute of Child Development - KPICD

• Dr. Ross Greene

Wendy's favourite book at the moment is:

Raising Kids with Big, Baffling Behaviors: Brain-Body-Sensory Strategies That Really Work by Robyn Gobbel.

Her website also has some excellent free resources:
Home - Robyn Gobbel

KEY WORDS FOR GOOGLE SEARCHING:

• Brain-behaviour connection
• Regulation and brain development
• Behavioural Neurscience
• Attachment and relational neuroscience
• Collaborative behaviour approaches

The most effective approaches tend to combine many of these perspectives. For example:

• Bruce Perry → “Regulate, relate, reason”
• Dan Siegel → integration and relational safety
• Ross Greene → lagging skills and collaboration
• Robyn Gobbel → nervous-system-informed parenting

Together, these perspectives are shaping much of today’s trauma-informed and neurodevelopmental understanding of children’s behaviour.

SPROUT’s parent training recognises the overwhelm of trying to wade through copious amounts of information online. We draw on the best of these approaches, simplifying them into a handful of practical strategies and a behaviour flowchart that gives parents direction while learning — or when under pressure. We use these strategies daily with some of the most challenging and complex little people and the positive impact proven and experienced by all of our parents.

We don’t need to become experts. Just a few tools and a fresh perspective can help parents become more strategic and effective. Over time, challenging behaviour will reduce, relationships can strengthen, skills can develop, and confidence and problem-solving can grow.

It is also worth noting that while many of these strategies were originally developed for children impacted by trauma or chronic stress, they are both neuro- and age-inclusive. If they work for the most challenging situations, they will also work for the most compliant children.

Enquiries regarding ministry team training, parent training, or private consultation can be made directly to me.

wendy.paroz@sproutsupport.com.au

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Transcript

Welcome And Wendy’s Story

Dave Quak 0:00

Well, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Sunburnt Souls. On this show, we love to speak about life and faith and our mental well-being. And this morning I have Wendy Perroz. And before I even give you the spiel of all the awesome stuff you are doing, Wendy, I just want to say hello to you. Like, how are you? What are you doing in life? Do you have kids, grandkids? What's happening for you?

SPEAKER_01 0:22

I have a very um busy and full life. I live at the Sunshine Coast, so that's a major bonus straight up. And we're loving the cool, clear crystal water at the moment. I have two young adult children, one who is just recently married, and uh and my daughter still lives with us, and and she is uh working and managing in a local retail store. Um, my husband and I both have a background in primary school teaching. And in particular, we've always had a had a soft spot for the kids who perhaps just don't quite fit the mold. They're different. And that's probably uh our love and our passion has always sort of pointed us in that direction.

Dave Quak 1:09

Yeah, you did a good stint in education. I think I read somewhere it was 25 years. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 1:15

Um, yeah, in terms of working with kids, we're probably closer to 35 years, so in and out of um, not necessarily Department of Education that whole time, in paid and voluntary roles the whole time, though.

Dave Quak 1:29

Yeah. And I see you've got a heart for people, like you just said, who might be overlooked in other spheres of life, which is why I'm so glad we're having a chat. Because here at Sunburnt Souls, we want to, you know, speak life into people that other people might ignore, or even you know, showcase people who are doing that. And today I wanted to

Why Sprout Support Center Exists

Dave Quak 1:50

talk a lot about the Sprout Support Center. Yes, sprout as in a sprouting seed sprout, in case I'm mumbling. But can you tell us about that and how that came to be?

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Yeah, it it's been uh something that is is very often so typical of God. Things bubble away, and and he's obviously been preparing us and and my little church plant for this for quite some years. And it's not till you look back that you go, wow, look at all those pieces that are coming together. Um so the church plant that that I was a part of, we have always prayed about who are the people that are probably on on uh the furthest away from Jesus and and often on the the edge of being connected with with our local community. And that led us into uh working with families that are often isolated because of various challenges within their home. Um and and so we've kind of taken things from there that we want to minister and be um inclusive of those families. And in particular, it it's families where um they're being impacted by really challenging behavior. And we we really want to communicate a message that kids who present with challenging behavior are often the most misunderstood kids in our communities. So it's important to us that that we understand kids, that we understand why they're doing what they're doing, and what can we as their their helpers and trusted adults do to help and support them and and to move to the other side of those challenging moments.

Dave Quak 3:38

I mean, that's an awesome call of God on your life, Wendy, to go and specifically target people that others might overlook. And I mean, if we read the gospels, you know, the orphans, the width and the widows, the people that are often overlooked in society are the ones that Jesus has a particular heart for.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yes, yes, exactly. And actually, that's part of the reason that that I knew early on that this was something that God wanted me to focus on was um I was, I think I'd probably been teaching for one or two years, and I ended up with uh a boy in my class whose behavior was relentlessly challenging, and I was completely and utterly out of my depth. And towards the end of the year, I I reacted in a way that really concerned me because I actually heard my father's words and his voice coming through what I had what I was doing to this this young boy, and I went home just saying, you know, Lord, I know the the hidden scars and the silent scars that that that approach leaves, and I don't want to do that. Can you please show me a new way? And it was almost an audible voice that I still remember today, where God said, Wendy, I want you to learn to be in relationship with these kids by being in relationship with me. And it just changed my whole perspective, and and so he's teaching me all of the time. And and when I spend time with him, um, I think one of the most wonderful things that I think really turns around kids is when we are challenged, or if God's going to put his finger on something in our life and say, Wendy, this needs some work on. Whenever I go into those moments with the Lord, he makes it easy for me to respond to that challenge. But more importantly, I never walk away feeling worse about myself. I always walk away feeling better about who I am and my relationship with him. And so over the you know, years of working with with kids who um probably push us to our limits, what and and may I I may not have been doing this perfectly every time, but my aim has always been in every interaction, I want this little person to go away feeling better about themselves than when we first started our discussion. Now that at times was a discussion that may have uh resulted in you know a suspension or a challenge or whatever. But all of those conversations can still finish with a kid feeling better about who they are.

Dave Quak 6:36

And it's good for them, and it's good for you. Wendy, like, you know, you can see your overflowing in the Holy Spirit as you talk about these things. When you first blew up with that young person, did you have to develop a way of setting yourself free after them after the fact?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Um, yeah, definitely. And and so I did access some professional support as well. Um, so working with a psychology Christian psychologist. Um, I then was interested in understanding kids and behavior, so I read lots of books um and so probably had that the educating myself, but also putting myself in a position where I had experts informing me and helping me to change the way I was thinking and behaving. Because to stop something is one thing, but if I don't have anything to replace it with that's any better, then I'm just gonna be continuing

Behavior As A Skills Gap

SPEAKER_01 7:35

this negative cycle.

Dave Quak 7:36

Yeah, so good. Um, you have a line in some of your uh, I think it's on your website maybe that says that you guys lean into positive, well-researched, trauma-informed strategies. Can you pull that apart for us?

SPEAKER_01 7:51

Yeah. Um, I I think Dave, it it starts with us having to re-examine or even be more aware of what do we currently think about behavior? And unfortunately, most of us are still influenced by stuff that is really poorly supported by research and education and experts in the area. And so we first of all we want to look at what behavior is and what it isn't. And primarily um the the overwhelming influence of research, um, and we're looking at 50 plus years of research, is letting us know that challenging behavior is the result of a lack of skills. It is not kids who are not trying hard enough. In fact, they're probably trying harder than than many others, but they they lack the skills for the demands of that situation and in that moment. And then we need to kind of look at the behind that again. Well, why why do they lack skills and and what's caused this? And these kids have a delay in some critical skills that most neurotypicals and their peers have been able to pick up along the way. So when a child when a child is growing up, there are a lot of things that can cause a bit of a disruption to to what's going on in their brain and and alter the the patterning of brain that would allow them to learn these skills. So it's a lack of skill and it's uh a brain that operates differently to others. And when we understand that, um, we we don't need to solve behavior when we can't, but we can solve the problem that causes it. And if a child doesn't have the skills to do well, then it changes our entire posture to rather than stopping the behavior to well, oh, hang on a minute. I can actually help you and encourage you and coach you to learn the skills that you might be missing.

Dave Quak 10:08

Yeah, right. That's quite cool. So the the big idea is if they get those skills, you'll see the challenging behavior diminish.

SPEAKER_01 10:15

Yes.

Dave Quak 10:16

Yeah, that's cool. And you're seeing it working. I mean, obviously, because it's working. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Yeah, it is, it is, it's great. Um, what we've seen now, so we're in our sort of third year of sprout where we go into homes and um I model strategies to parents. So I think what's really helpful is we're not we're not just saying go to a training course, we're saying I can show you the difference because I think parents are so discouraged and so exhausted. Anyone who comes to me because they've got a child with challenging behavior is a parent who has tried

Coaching Parents And Tracking Progress

SPEAKER_01 10:55

loads of things, and they are they see that it's not working, they love their kids dearly, they know that there is some gold in there with their little person, but they they don't know what else to do. And and that's what we love to to probably help parents with. If you've tried everything, then this is something you need to understand because in Christian and secular world, we're coming, they are coming together now saying exactly the same stuff. It dovetails with the truth of scripture beautifully, and we're getting neuroscientists who are saying the brain was designed to grow in safe, um, confident relationships. And and in fact, they can't grow outside of that, and so we have a wonderful opportunity to be able to go in and help parents understand um how to approach behavior differently. And for all of the the parents that we work with, if they do the three-month training course that that I do, um, which we've actually experimented with online now, and it's uh we can actually do it online, it works, which is quite a surprise and encouraging, so it doesn't have to be face to face. But um we we track the success of our um of our progress for parents because it's important not to just say, oh yeah, this has worked, but how do we know it's worked? And we evaluate in three main areas the frequency of challenging outbursts, the intensity of that outburst, and then the recovery time. How long does it take from that challenging moment for a child to get back to their sweet spot where they can just be themselves and they're calm again and you can you go, oh, here we go. This this is who I know you are. And we measure those um progressively over the three months. And for every single one of our families, we are having between an 87 and 92 percent reduction in all three areas.

Dave Quak 13:17

That's amazing. It's extremely frequency, intensity, and the last one was the recovery.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah, right.

Dave Quak 13:25

So I mean, yeah, continue, please.

SPEAKER_01 13:28

Yeah, what so if one of our it is would be typical for one of our parents to ring up and say, uh, tell me about the challenging things that are going on, and I'll say, okay, so how how many challenging moments are you having in your house at the moment per day? And most of those parents will say, well, it depends. It can be anywhere from you know five significant explosions, maybe 10 to 20 challenging moments. And and so we we look at the intensity of those, and we ask parents to to grade that challenge from one to ten. So 10 means this is really significantly challenging behavior. You are intervening in a way that will protect that child or protect others from that um that challenging moment. And and all of our parents start by saying we're seeing four to five explosions that would be between an eight to ten intensity, and it can take their child anywhere from an hour to two days to actually recover from that. And an 82 to 95 percent reduction means that parents are now saying, I might see one or two uh a week or a fortnight. The intensity now is sitting between a four to seven, and the recovery time now is 10 minutes to 30 minutes.

Dave Quak 15:06

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

That's that's life-changing for a household.

Dave Quak 15:10

That's amazing. That's amazing because when a household is volatile, it not only just affects, you know, the emotional well-being, there's the mental health implications on everybody. Do you speak into that space as well with the families?

SPEAKER_01 15:23

Yeah, and and I think that's one of the reasons, Dave, why we're we're really passionate about doing just little little drips of input to parents because they are exhausted and uh they're depleted and drained. And we now know that trauma changes and alters a brain. And trauma is not just, I love how Bruce Perry, who's one of the leaders in in trauma and brain psychology and psychiatry, talks about capital T trauma and little T trauma.

Trauma And Chronic Stress At Home

SPEAKER_01 16:00

And capital T trauma is is the stuff that would be what we would already know and expect it to be quite significantly challenging for a child to live through. So it may be domestic violence, it may be a health challenge or the passing of a close and loved adult. Um, it all of those influences we know will be negative and challenging. But the little tea trauma is what I think um a lot of parents and educators and uh ministry workers can be more aware of, and that is that little tea trauma, and it's probably more helpful if we say someone who experiences chronic stress, chronic stress regularly over a fairly long period of time, and it's quite significant, and it's something that you don't have the ability or the control to change that at this point in time. We now know that a lot of those little T traumas add up to have exactly the same brain-altering impact as capital T trauma. So a child that can come from a really loving family that perhaps is going to school or going to various other places where they don't fit in, where they constantly feel isolated, they experience the world differently, that little person's brain is being altered because the stress that they are under all day, every day changes. And that's when we see challenging behavior, and that's where um we need to be able to say to parents, this is not a parenting issue. This is actually uh a child who has an altered brain, and as a parent, you were never equipped with skills. I certainly wasn't, I don't know about you, Doug, but I was not equipped for um how to support a child who has a different uh neuropsychological profile.

Dave Quak 18:12

Yeah, there's so much coming out that's helpful, Wendy. I as you just pointed out, but I can understand how sometimes it's overwhelming to wade through all of the new research and everything to get to where you're at where you've actually got a methodology.

SPEAKER_02 18:27

Yes.

Dave Quak 18:27

Do you know what I mean? Sometimes I know even in my own parenting, I get sent so much stuff that I'm like, one thing I was doing well last week's the thing you shouldn't do anymore. Like when we had kids, I don't know if you remember the baby wires movement, but it was like that was the big thing, and now it's almost like that's the anti-thing, and all these things, I'm like, far right, you've got to be onto it as a parent. Yeah, you know, which is why I really respect organizations like yours. I actually had a chat to Justin Colson a couple of weeks ago, um, the Happy Families guy, and we were talking not this, not the same thing, but I asked him how you go about bringing up like with a friend or loved one the idea that they may need to address some of the parenting things in their life. Now, I'm not trying to pretend I've got it all together. I know I've got things wrong with me, but for yours to work, you've somehow been able to get into the homes and get an open ear. How do you do that? Like, even just for a person who wants to help their loved one who's maybe going to be closed off to the idea. Do you have any appointments?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Yeah, I I think it's an exciting time because we do have so much to offer. Um, and I I usually say to parents, um, would you like me to come in um to your home one of the hardest times of the day? Your kids um may or may not respond to me. Um, we we don't know what we'll get, but would you like me to come in? And and we offer them this one hour, one to two hours sort of input where I go in and just model what it looks like to de-escalate kids and and how in that within that time frame, what I'll try and do is actually ask a child to do something that ordinarily I know they don't particularly want to do, but we model how do you do that? How how do you get kids on side? How do you get them to voluntarily join with you and and head to the other side? So I think the first thing, Dave, is understanding that we can actually upskill. And if and when we um we've actually been really fortunate, um, Karinity have given us a grant to go into um church ministry teams and actually teach them about some of these strategies and say, we don't need to know everything, we can just be informed by some of the trauma stuff, and we can do a day's training program and equip you to have some strategies that will bring about different results with kids, and that's one of the most effective things that that you can do as um as a Christian worker and as a friend and as a supporter is um get yourself a little skilled. And when you can model to parents that there's something different, that makes uh a big difference. And now obviously not everyone's going to be able to do that or be interested in that. The other big thing is probably knowing what um where you can actually encourage people to find out good information and how do you um tease out things that are going to be useful and things that aren't. And we would come back to the frequency, intensity, and recovery time as being the key um litmus test to any strategy. And whether it was um baby wise or or growing kids, gods, whatever they were, or you know triple P and all of things, if you implement what they're doing, then you will see a significant reduction in all of those three areas. If you're not, um then I suspect that the strategies that you are using are not necessarily the most um efficient. And I would say uh that if you are looking at current uh strategies, we've got plenty that will um that will make sure that what you're implementing is useful for all neurotypes. So it's neuroinclusive, it is appropriate for age three to ninety three, and um, and it is appropriate in all settings. So whether it's me offering to help a parent in a supermarket to de-escalate because this poor mum is so embarrassed that she has absolutely no control over her kid at this point in time, and their six-year-old is starfishing on the ground, wailing, and you're just like, you know, that poor parent is feeling terrible. So, this stuff you can use in in just a couple of minutes of of interaction, or it's something that you can use to train kids. So I I love the versatility of of what is coming out of behavioral neuroscience at the moment.

Dave Quak 23:53

That's awesome. Could we trouble you for some links and I'll put them in the show notes? Just some resources that you rate. I'll make sure that they're in the show notes and to your stuff as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Yes.

Dave Quak 24:05

One of my favorite it's my favorite and not favourite parts of the week is when I volunteer at the play group um on Wednesday mornings that we have at church. Because it's one of those ones where a whole lot of community mums come. So there's a few from our church, but there's way more community ones. And when I say I love it and don't love it, I love it because it's the most valuable ministry we have in the church, hands down. More people, more fruit. It's brilliant. I don't love it because I'm the barista and I get all stressed out, and so like there's all these mums coming chucking orders at me, and I'm like, I'm worried I'm gonna give someone the wrong

De Escalation And Three Core Skills

Dave Quak 24:40

milk and cause a fit or something. Yeah, it's so fruitful, but there's a real good culture of grace with mothering, and sometimes dads come too. But if so, someone turns up and their child has a meltdown on the floor and squeals and starfishes, like you said, there's just no condemnation, there's no judgment, there's no one walking over trying to be like, This is what you did wrong. Yeah, you know, someone will bring him a coffee, someone will give him a hug, someone will wipe away the tears, you know, and they're there for each other in the messy times, and it's it's indiscriminate. Sometimes it's the new parents, sometimes it's the one with five kids. Like you just can't.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

Exactly.

Dave Quak 25:20

But I think what I like about what you're doing, Wendy, is you're creating spaces where the culture is okay to not be okay, but then it's also like let's grow together in that, though.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Yeah, yeah. And and to encourage one another and and take the pressure off parents because I think is isn't it exciting, particularly with young mums at the moment, so many of them have realized we've gone from this very authoritarian style of uh parenting. The pendulum then swung to overly permissive, and we're seeing that kids are falling apart from that as well. So so many of the mums that I chat with are saying, like, I know both of those aren't working, but like what what what's the middle ground? And it's so good that they're asking questions and they are looking for answers. They know that the extremes don't work, and um, and it's really lovely to be able to say to young mums, like, you this isn't your fault, by the way. You know, you've got a little tiger here who who perhaps um experiences the world differently. Um let's let's understand um when we come to behavior and we look at it not not as the behavior, but more as what's the message that's being sent by this little person? The reason they're having a meltdown is because they don't have the skills at this point in time to manage what's going on. And what is so fun about all of this is that the research is saying there's top three skills for all kids that they need. And if we can say to parents, this is all you need, like there's a gazillion other things you could do, but work on these three flexibility and adaptability. If you think of your little starfisher, that's what they're struggling with. Uh frustration tolerance, and the third one is problem solving under a little bit of pressure. And whether you're three or 93, whether you're looking at this little this little one uh that's struggling at play group and has has just doiked the the toy across the room because uh that wasn't the one that they wanted. Um if there's a projectile, then you know this is someone who's actually, they're not being naughty. It's not an expression of their character, it's actually someone who is struggling with frustration tolerance and with flexibility and well actually um and problem solving. They don't kids don't need us to solve the problem. And I think sometimes we step in too quickly to try and solve the problem. They just need our help to drop the the frustration and to allow them the opportunity then to to be flexible and show them what that looks like, and so in those situations, I'd walk up to a little kid and say, Oh, darling, you are so frustrated, aren't you? Was that the toy that you really, really wanted? And they will say, Yes, and he took it off me. And you say, Oh my goodness, well, of course you are upset and frustrated. I'm not solving the problem, yeah, I'm just giving them time to chill. And and then you eventually, at the very end of everything, I spend most of my time just understanding what what just get it out, and and and it doesn't, they can say whatever it, whatever it is. Um I I'm not necessarily listening to the content of what they're saying because there's they can't be logical in that moment. Um they're just getting it out, and then as they calm down, we're then able to say, so hmm, you want the toy, he wants the toy, what do you think we could do now? Yeah, boom, they'll give you, they'll give you a solution every time. We just jump in usually too quick to solve the problem. And the front part of our brain, that is our thinking brain, that makes all of those great decisions is actually disconnected in that moment. So, from a neuroscience point of view, what we're saying is hang on a minute, parents, just slow down. Let's wait till we've got that problem solving and thinking behavior uh part of the brain back. And I'm just leading them through the process to re-engage their their prefrontal cortex and they can solve the problem.

Dave Quak 29:42

Yeah. I love that, Wendy. I love that. Most of the Sunburn Souls listeners are kind of between the Gold Coast and the Sunny Coast. Yes. If anyone wants to implement what you do, and did that Karinity grant? Oh, by the way, congratulations on the Karinity Grant. You took my you took my spot. I tried and and didn't.

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Oh, I'm sorry.

Dave Quak 30:03

I got one last year, so that was okay. Oh, those guys are great, aren't they? So generous. Like the mount they give on.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

How good is it that someone's actually saying, look, you know, let's have let's let them have a crack at this. Yeah. Because if it wasn't for them, we can't do it.

Dave Quak 30:19

No, I respect them heaps. Um, with the the money from Karinity and all of that, does that free you up to go and do consultation with all this stuff?

SPEAKER_01 30:28

Yeah, in particular, it it um frees us up to go where churches invite us um to and churches might want to host a day of training for ministry team leaders. Um, we can we can go in. We've done um, we went up to Townsville uh the end of last year and and we did some stuff there, which was fantastic. Um, again, wouldn't have been possible without Karinity helping us with that. And they are ministry teams that are somewhat isolated from from those sorts of things. Yeah. So that that's what it frees us up to today. We're where we're invited, uh, we will run training days.

Dave Quak 31:07

I'll make sure to put all the links in the um bio for that because it's it's super what you do is amazing. Um, anyone who wants to check you out, go to Sprout Support Center, check out the website, and then contact you via that.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

Yep.

Dave Quak 31:20

Um, do you have any other pearls before we we we uh pray today, Wendy? Do you got any last pearls of wisdom for us?

SPEAKER_01 31:27

Well, I'd I'd certainly say if you're a parent who's listening and and you're struggling, give us a call. Um because I I do online

Getting Help Resources And Prayer

SPEAKER_01 31:35

consultations as well, so it doesn't matter where you are. Um I I think my final thing would would have to be don't solve the problem. Adults, slow it down, let the child just calm down, do what you need until they're calm, and then have the chat. It's kids will not learn when they're in heightened, crazy mode, and and their and their brain is disconnected. Slow down, just listen, be empathetic. If you are able to encourage and compliment, that engages their midbrain. So I will often say to someone, oh, you are trying to be a good sharer, I can see that, and that didn't go so well today. That's okay, you'll be able to tomorrow because I saw you playing before with those kids, and and just encouraging. And again, if we go back to the model of Jesus, what does he do? He comes straight in with reaffirming Wendy, who who are you uh it to me? You are valuable and you're important. Let's establish the our our connection, my love, my unconditional support of you. I am always on your team. Let's establish that first and and let him teach you and uh about relationships and pass it on to your kids.

Dave Quak 33:08

I love that. I love that, Wendy Perroz from Sprout Support Center. It has been a delight having you on. Seriously, you're very contagious. I want to hang with you all day, but I can't. But if you, my friend, could pray for us, that would be very much a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

I'd love to. Thank you, Dave. Uh Heavenly Father, I thank you so much that we are in a time where um the broader world are proving all of the things that you said from the very beginning, that we were made to be in relationship with you, with others, uh, and within community. I thank you, Lord, that your design for us is being proven. It is uh our pattern of growth is predictable and it's balanced and it's just calm and and it has a gentle, beautiful uh flow. Lord, I want to pray for the parents who at the moment are exhausted. They are really um finding it hard to know what to do next. They are great, committed, advocating parents with a child that is a real challenge. Father, I pray that you would bring peace and comfort. And I pray, Lord, that you would remove the weight of guilt and judgment and pain and hurt because they think it might be their fault. Lord, please remove that and please guide them to the places where they can actually find consistent support, inclusion and love and adoration of the little person that that is in their household. Please bring peace, Lord, to these little people. We thank you for these little uh feisty ones that challenge us and cause us to think. But thank you, Lord, that you make the answers accessible. And Lord, if we are in relationship with you, we can learn how to be in relationship with our kids. Please teach us, please grow us and help us to navigate our way into homes where there can be real hope and real purpose and a real sense of community in a home where there may currently be chaos. But that's your thing, Lord. You bring calm to the storm. Bless them, Lord, we pray. Amen.

Dave Quak 35:44

Amen.